Switch everything to LED's?

Just thinking about switching all bulbs over to LED's on a 2001 CB500S.
It's a totally standard bike with no additions at all, and i still love it that way.
It does small milaege each year so on short commutes with the headlight on etc, Its probably draining the battery more each journey than what it is charging! Just put a new battery in and started thinking LED's would be far less a drain on the power.

Is it an easy thing to do? Is the existing electrics ok to keep? Do I just swap every bulb out, or is it better/easier to put new smaller indicators on and such like?

Just wanted to know if anyone has done it and what you guys have discovered with the process.
Any tips or pointers gratefully noted! I'll still probably end up keeping it fully original....but curious at the moment.
Cheers

The change to led bulbs is purely down to the fact that they tend to last much longer than conventional bulbs which means less maintenance. 
Granted they draw less power but other than the headlight the difference is negligible.
Changing the headlight bulb is not so easy because the light pattern is decided by the point of the light source in relation to the reflector bowl. As the light from an led headlight bulb comes from multiple sources it gets scattered rather than focusing into the correct pattern. A straight MOT failure.
On a plus side I have always ridden with lights on, it tends to keep the regulator cooler as it means less generated power that it has to dispose of. Not to mention giving drivers one less reason not to see you.

Hmm...not as simple as I thought! Might just leave all as is. Cheers

I've tried installing a chinese elCheapo H4 LED bulb. Actually, i've reported extensively on the subject here - but to make a long story short, it was not a success. Far from!!
Complete and utter crap-light-distribution...
However, that was back in 2015-16. Things have likely moved on.

Take a look at Youtube; look for "Headlight Revolution" and get a feel for this guy's reviewing method. Decide if it looks trustworthy.

If yes, then procede to eg this website:
https://youtu.be/uO8Nuj6tPy4
https://headlightrevolution.com/h4-9003-gtr-lighting-ultra-2/
or
https://gtrlighting.com/h4-9003-gtr-lighting-ultra-2/

I've talked to them, and no they don't have a distributor in europe, no they don't sell single bulbs and yes, they claim this particular bulb is perfectly compatible.

You may wonder if there's room for the fan in he CB's headlight housing.
There's room if my previous experiment with a similar but crappy fan-driven bulb can be applied.

For the remaining bulbs, taillight LED swaps right in, but be aware that signaling lights do not swap out as easily. I'm using mini Halogen bulbs here.

And yes; I too observe that riding with headlight on keeps the regrec cool. And a cool regrec will last a lo longer... Thus, you will benefit from keeping the generator loaded.

Mr Messy wrote:Hmm...not as simple as I thought! Might just leave all as is. Cheers

I was up on changing all to led  some time ago.

Found stormbringer's report here on the headlamp and decided not to change the headlight bulb.

Changing the indicator bulbs requires a further intervention, LEDs will not work with the standard setup.

The indicator lamp on the dashboard would not work with LED, other 3 indicators work, they are brighter, good for neutral indicator, oil and high beam are off most of the time anyway.

Changing bulbs for dashboard illumination did not make much of a difference.

Brake light is brighter. The only bulb that eventually seemed to have been useful changing was the  reg plate - it is far more brighter and illuminates a big spot on the ground making the bike more visible.

At the end it was some money wasted for nothing. 

Philips do a 12v H4 bulb that is supposed to be up to 120% brighter, may be worth a look at euro car parts website and the usual fleabay, amazonion, best to make sure they are not from the far east (china) etc. My 2018 cb500f came with front/rear led bulbs, indicators are standard bulbs,I will be adding seperate led spot/fog lights in the spring.

You may get problems with the indicator flashers going extremely fast on you, as you may get more problems switching to LEDs if you don't do it properly to avoid indicator problem or buying cheap alternatives that may actually fail on you while the stock lights could last the lifetime of the bike.

Some LEDs are totally crap looking and can be very poor in flashing in brightness to alert anyone around you what you might be wanting to do on the road ahead.

Also, when it comes to resale value it will do nothing for you, but instead hinder it instead as some buyers like myself would rather buy a stock bike because it's far easier maintain & replace stock items with standard parts than trying to figure out where to get a non-standard item from a possible source.

Depending on the age of bike the earlier bikes look terrible with LEDS while the latest incarnation of CB500 is far more suited to LEDs system instead with it's modern general looks, as they were designed with that in mind.

I fitted the Phillips extra bright bulbs and have to say I didn't notice any difference in brightness - the light still can't compete with the piercing bright headlamps of many modern cars.

I was given a 7 inch LED headlamp unit to try but it is more bulky at the back than the standard reflector and would be very close to all the wiring inside the shell although I think it could be made to fit.  However, what worried me was the possible damage to this wiring with the heat generated by the LED's electronics.

I undertook some heat tests by strapping my K thermocouple to the back of the light unit feeding this to my multi-meter and letting the computer log temperatures over time.  The lamp unit was placed in a polystyrene box to try and simulate the lamp housing on the bike.  Using a fixed input voltage to the unit of 13.6 (the standard voltage for lamp measurements) the temperature started at ambient  25.2 deg C and after an hour and 15 minutes had stabilised at 63.7 deg C.  This I felt was worryingly high as most bike wiring insulation is only good for 70 deg C (some is certainly higher but I don't have the spec. for the CB's wiring).  The lamp temperature is likely to be much higher if you are having a run-out on a hot summer's day.

As  result of these tests I abandoned the idea of the LED headlight although I might re-visit the conversion if I come across a cheap secondhand lamp housing on to which I would build an air scoop on the bottom.  As cb500rider has said above I don't want to modify the bike in any way that cannot be easily undone if I come to sell.

Regarding the headlight; you might want to check out this site:
https://www.fullblast.dk/honda-eng#sp

If what I'm told is right, this LED insert consumes a mere 20W, freeing up 30W for a set of foglights, meaning you can triple the CB's headlight footprint. On top of the extra light output from the replacement insert...

Not bad.

6500K temperature, 3500/5800 lumens output.

An interesting collection from Fullblast, Denmark, but very expensive.  My unit was bought from China as an experiment and I doubt it cost more than £30 delivered, it looks very similar to the Fullblast FBI-2940.

Some measured figures to confirm that the already mentioned 20W power consumption is about right.  My initial temperature tests were done on full beam, i.e. worst case conditions, and the current consumption was 2.06A (=28.0W) at the start falling to 1.68A (=22.8W) at the test's completion after an hour and a quarter.

Running on dip beam the current was 1.41A (=19.2W).

All the temperature rise occurs on the rear heat-sink, there is no rise on the front of the unit.  Unfortunately, the rear is where all the wiring is that might be damaged, particularly in the long term, by the rise in temperature.

The picture below (if I've got the upload correct!) shows the heat sink on my unit.

I roll with these.
the position inside the optical is vertical with the tab open in the up position.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32914153555.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.274263c0m088J6

goulton wrote:An interesting collection from Fullblast, Denmark, but very expensive.  My unit was bought from China as an experiment and I doubt it cost more than £30 delivered, it looks very similar to the Fullblast FBI-2940.

etc etc

much more temperature generates in my opinion the original H4.
On the other hand, the optics allow air to enter around the entire frontal circle.

goulton wrote:An interesting collection from Fullblast, Denmark, but very expensive.  My unit was bought from China as an experiment and I doubt it cost more than £30 delivered, it looks very similar to the Fullblast FBI-2940.

If you can legally operate your bike in the UK with that headlight unit - and it's generating a properly cutoff dipped beam so you don't blind oncoming motorists (could be me ), then happy days.

Fullblasts selection are all E-approved, meaning I can legally operate it. E-approval was a prerequisite because the bike is used for travelling abroad* - and I've checked  the dipped beam cutoff prior to buying the unit.

Regarding pricing: Well, not cheap. However, considering that Louis maintains a similar, if not higher, price level, I'm satisfied with my choice which is said to be a swap-in replacement.
Louis prices: Eg https://www.louis.eu/artikel/koso-thunderbolt-led-headlight-black-170-mm/10037018 (not correct fit for CB, but close)
They also sell 'adaptive headlights' which are probably even better, but the pricing goes bonkers; 800 Euros.


*) Denmark is so small that when you get to 3rd gear, you're about to leave the country... Thus; travelling abroad is normal.

burudi wrote:I roll with these.
the position inside the optical is vertical with the tab open in the up position.

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32914153555.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.274263c0m088J6

You'll have to convince me this bulb does a proper job. I've already tried out a chinese cheap bulb - a complete disaster:
https://cb500.forumotion.com/t3529-h4-led-headlight-bulb

Photos of the light pattern, please.

As burudi has said a standard H4 bulb creates much more heat than the LED (most of the bulb's power is heat not light) but because it is in a shiny reflector most of the heat is projected forward.  There is a little heating around the metal bulb base at the back of the reflector but the reflector itself remains substantially cold.

My worry all along has been that the LED unit dissipates all its (smaller amount) heat at the back of the unit where the wiring is, hence my tests of temperature rise quoted in an earlier post.  Added to that the rear of the LED unit is much more bulky.  The standard H4 reflector is a simple parabaloid the projects back 55mm from the mounting flange.  The LED unit's heat sink is effectively a 125mm diameter cylinder that projects back 70mm so it and the wiring is going to be much more tightly packed into the shell and any heat will have a more serious effect on the plastic insulation.

At this stage I am not worrying about E-approval or beam pattern, I will address these problems later if and when I fit the unit to the bike and am happy with the electrical/thermal side of the installation.  For all I know at this stage it might be a lamp with RH dip, so no good on UK roads.  Then I will have to check with my local bike shop that they will accept such a headlight for the MOT test (where they always check the beam setting), if they accept it they could fail the bike if the beam does not meet UK specification.  Then there is the problem of whether this constitutes a modification that the insurance company needs to know about.

Provided the bike passes its MOT test I shall ignore E-approval.  The bike has never been abroad and for the last few years has not even been out of county but, at the moment, I am a very long way from having it on the road with the LED light fitted.

goulton wrote:For all I know at this stage it might be a lamp with RH dip, so no good on UK roads. 

And so I had a parcel delivered, containing the Fullblast headlight unit.

It bolts right in. My setup features a left-right-aim adjustment screw, and there's no provisions for bringing that over. I've simply tightened the top-bottom bolts a bit more.
Internal wiring in the bowl had to be jiggled around to make room for the unit, but eventually I had it done. It turns out there's quite a gap around the edges, acting just fine as air intake. I'd say that putting a scoop on the bowl for cooling purposes is not needed; air flows in all way round, passes the unit cooling fins and emits through the cable gland inlet hole.

My unit is NOT RH dip. Neither is it LH dip. It's flat, meaning it will work just fine everywhere.

And oh boy does it light up the world ahead!

Cool, well-cutoff dipped beam reaching a lot further out, left and right. High beam a more pencilbeam-ish thing. And oodles of light.

I see my charging monitor report a higher voltage, telling me the power consumption has indeed come down. IMO that's not beneficial to the health of my regrec, so a pair of little fork-mounted foglamps are now planned.

No. I can't show you a picture of the light pattern. Bike's no longer here, as the space it occupied in my tiny one-bike-at-a-time-shed is now populated with an altogether different animal.

That's good to know, particularly with regard to the space in the bowl around the light unit.  It's some time since I looked inside the light and it seems there is more space than I remembered.  I have another bike, an XS650E, and the wiring and connectors in its bowl is so tight that it is a major effort to arrange everything and get the light unit refitted.

Voltage regulation is one of the problems with the permanent magnet alternators but provided it doesn't go too high and fry the battery (which indicates a certain fault) I can't see a real problem.  The bike can be ridden without any lights on so presumably Honda have allowed for this in their design.

Now that I am isolated at home for the next 12 weeks because of my age and the weather is getting warmer for working in the shed I must have a go at changing the light to the LED unit and at the same time sort out the advisories from the MOT earlier in the year